cover photo

admin@afterpod.com

afterpod admin (rick)

Product vs Protocol

 Colorado 
!Hubzilla Advocacy
Sometimes people are advocating a product... Hubzilla, Mastodon... other times, an underlying protocol... Zot, ActivityPub.

I'm thinking many folks, even some "techs", have the incorrect and conflated impression that
Fediverse=Mastodon=ActivityPub

We need clear messaging to break out of the confusion.
Image/photo
  
A moderation tool is the next logical step.  I have no idea whether AP can/cannot... it's just that everyone is talking about it and expectations are high.  

In some circles, Mastodon is getting a huge credit for "inventing" things when in reality they should just get appropriate credit for IMPLEMENTING certain things... even then, some have said they don't fully follow some standards.

Here's another example, FWIW:

rel=me


Image/photo
  
Yeah, I had read about that. I think people see this as ID verification when really it's just id linking. I can set up a complicated web and "build an id" but it doesn't necessarily link it to "the real world". I think that ancor is important.
  
Sure it can (federate moderation) and some other projects have already implemented this. I've got some minimal support for these messages but they need more work. Mostly, I believe in self-moderation through settings sane permissions - which is impossible in ActivityPub. But yeah, you can use the protocol to send a warn or block to the instance admin. I will eventually implement that part. I'm *not* going to implement shared (federated) block lists. I don't believe somebody in Germany should have the right to censor something that appears on my server, no matter how distasteful it might be; because that means they have the means to censor *anything* that appears on my server.  

I've also started on rel-me verification (which we've supported on the outgoing side for years). To make it really valuable we'd have to restructure the profile elements a bit.
Ethical Social Media Platform Design

 Colorado 
!Hubzilla Advocacy
Mastodon enjoys all the press attention, it seems. Friendica and Diaspora get mentioned, yet nothing about Hubzilla.
https://theweek.com/articles/799415/quest-design-ethical-social-media-platform

(I'm having health issues preventing more engagement here, sorry; will participate more after surgery in three weeks.)
  last edited: Fri, 02 Nov 2018 07:27:07 -0600  
Sorry you are not well! All the best to your recovery -

______

some one how can write English very well should drop Jennifer Jonson a note
  
Sorry you are not well! I hope things go well for you and your doctors get you patched up quickly.
  
I think the best use of this article is to use it to ask how does Hubzilla answer the issues raised? Once we have that list in hand (or at least answers that are clearly different from what D* and Mastodon provide) - THEN go to people like Jennifer and others who have written on the topic and say, "Hey, we've been around - we've seen the situation - and here's how we've actually addressed it and provided solutions." Granted, it'd be nice to see our name in print. It'd be nicer if the reporters were able to say, "Hey, here's some folks who have answers and aren't expecting magic pixie dust to solve the issue."

I think Hubzilla and the ZOT ecosystem is uniquely positioned to actually provide some of those answers. I also think there is a need for tools and resources that haven't yet been developed that answer some of the problems.
Zap logo?

 Colorado last edited: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 06:45:37 -0600  
Noticed this elsewhere... IS there an official Zap logo?
https://soc.freedombone.net/notice/1550615

!Hubzilla Support Forum
Image/photo
  
I assume it's this: ⚡
  
"NOooooooo !"
Image/photo
  last edited: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:10:36 -0600  
Z

Image/photo

Would be a perfect 3-frame ANIMATED image... with SOUND effect!
 Colorado 
wow.!
leave for a few days and miss a LOT here!  v happy to see 3.8 for great step forward... but now have some sites to upgrade.  

THANKS DEVS!
Profile image caching on remote servers

 Colorado 
!Hubzilla Support Forum
When I first installed hubzilla on afterpod.com, I uploaded a personal profile logo (g2).  A couple of days later, replaced it with a better site logo (afterpod).

I still see the g2 logo appearing on Mastodon as well as sometimes on Hubzilla servers (if I click over to read a message).  I assume it is cached but wonder what the mechanics of that are.

Image/photo
  
If you're connected with somebody on a site, profile photo updates take a day or two. If you aren't connected with somebody on the site it's a bit less predictable. I don't know what Mastodon does. I'm currently providing an updated timestamp on the photo object in Osada, but not from hubzilla. I don't know of anybody else who reads and processes these updated timestamps but I think it's the most sensible approach. I think most other projects just provide a cache timer on the entire profile and refresh it at some point whether anything changed or not. The cache duration is anybody's guess. But just like Hubzilla, if they aren't getting any regular communications from you by virtue of being connected with somebody on the site, they need some kind of communication from you to kick off the refresh.
  
I see.  Have asked a Q at a Mastodon site... will try to learn what it does.

Here is an example w/Hubzilla on both sides. If connected, system updates changes to the profile image.  If NOT connected, old/original icon remains even after many visits, etc.


Image/photo
  
I found this MASTODON function for admins but it appears to be global maintenance rather than a cache update routine.  This part of the issue is definitely on their side.

Image/photo
Channel - change RSS feed URL

 Colorado 
!Hubzilla Support Forum
OK, I will admit to the ability to be BLIND to something directly in front of me...

I set up a channel which sources content through an RSS feed.  How do I update that URL if it changes?

I do see where I can delete the existing one and created an updated one, but I assume I'll lose old entries (and associated comments, etc) so don't want to do that.
  
Sorry, found it.  Now to learn what it actually does...

Image/photo
  
Now to learn what it actually does...


It stops trying to send and receive anything from a connection, but it doesn't remove their posts.
  
So I discovered!  

Learning what a system does, and to trust it, takes a little while. This curve is steep... I appreciate your help... everyone's help.
Theme Paths

 Colorado 
!Hubzilla Support Forum #themes
Can someone please tell me the circumstances where each of these THEME PATHS may be valid (and the others not)?

    $paths = array(
        "{$root}view/theme/$thname/$ext/$file",
        "{$root}view/theme/$parent/$ext/$file",
        "{$root}view/site/$ext/$file",
        "{$root}view/$ext/$file",
    );


Are some just for legacy support or...?
  
In order:
* Theme specific support files
* "Parent" theme files (in case current theme is a subtheme
* Site specific
* General "base" base Hubzilla elements.

First "found" file wins.

$ext is going to usually be js, css.

Without knowing exactly where you are looking, I'd say that they could all be used anywhere - but some are very likely not used in many cases (for example, add-on authors likely will not have theme specific settings). I think the array is used for js, css, and tpl elements (that would be the value of $ext) in a variety of circumstances, so you may need to be a bit more specific in your question to get more useful info.
  
In order:
* Theme specific support files
* "Parent" theme files (in case current theme is a subtheme
* Site specific
* General "base" base Hubzilla elements.

First "found" file wins.

$ext is going to usually be js, css.

Without knowing exactly where you are looking, I'd say that they could all be used anywhere - but some are very likely not used in many cases (for example, add-on authors likely will not have theme specific settings). I think the array is used for js, css, and tpl elements (that would be the value of $ext) in a variety of circumstances, so you may need to be a bit more specific in your question to get more useful info.
seeds waiting for wind

  
Dragonfly

  
Message Threading

  
!Hubzilla Support Forum I don't see one, so I'll ask about threading options.  The default sequential threading of messages is ok... but there are times when a REPLY to a specific item in the thread is more effective.  I don't see this capability, just some ordering options.  Obviously, this adds a certain level of complexity so maybe that's why it's avoided (esp. in light of message privs, etc).

I've found some features (or lack of) are based on a platform design or operational philosophy. Is there one regarding item/message threading and inline replies?
  
I thought maybe it was coming when I saw the db references to parent as well as thread. With this project, I should have known... come and gone.  

Maybe the time it right again?  It would increase familiarity. Limiting the depth seems reasonable.  Presentation is important.
#threading
  
Hopefully you understand the open source way of doing things. Most development is done by somebody with a need making it happen.

Nobody in the project is likely to get in your way if one a) makes the new thing optional and b) doesn't break something that exists. There is a toggle to turn on threading and set the number of levels somewhere in the code. One would probably have to fix a few things because it has been turned off for a long time and there have been a lot of changes in that time.
  
Finding a fit close enough to my needs that I can adapt is my goal, at which time I do hope to contribute something back to the community.

I hope my questions do not sound like demands and trust no one takes offense.  I am simply exploring the various paths necessary to reach my ends and this forum has been quite helpful!  Happily, I'm finding a great deal of flexibility in the system.  Having built many large and small web-oriented applications over the years, I can see where several typical dead ends have been avoided, so especially appreciate certain aspects of the design.

It's clear I"m late to this party (hence my "come and gone" remark)... still a mystery to me how I've not stumbled across Hubzilla before.  I am not new to the internet nor PHP nor...

Anyway, this seems like a friendly, reasonable place and -- so far as I can tell -- Hubzilla is some solid code that will be able to do what I want (with a little tailoring).  I think this might be a win-win.
test 433

  
@GluedToTheScreen pubcrawl has been enabled on hubz
test 424

  
@GluedToTheScreen do you receive this?
Creating Themes

  
!Hubzilla Support Forum

I've referenced the DOC and also found this good article on THEMES by @deadsuperhero@social.nasqueron.org
https://medium.com/we-distribute/the-do-everything-system-an-in-depth-review-of-hubzilla-3-0-692204177d4e

Anyone know of a DIAGRAM or FLOWCHART (?) showing the sequence of templates/includes/styles/variables traveled by the system when constructing a regular Hubzilla page?

The system is as intricate as I've seen, but that's fine... once understood, I am confident I can make my site APPEAR the way I want.  I've hacked a few things but there's an order to how components are applied... easy to step on yourself if you don't know what you're doing.

And I'm lazy... don't want to trace down and detail this myself if already done.
  
The quick way is to include or just download @Sean Tilley 's themes in addition to the standard redmatrix theme, then use a visual diff tool on two theme folders to see what changed. Oh, Hubzilla uses Smarty3 templates in the .tpl files to separate code from presentation.
  
Once you see how Comanche fits into the picture, the lowlevel stuff is mostly contained in boot.php::construct_page(). It takes the navigation bar, and the "content" which is generated by individual modules (e.g. controllers) and the Comanche page layout (which typically says what to put into the sidebars), and puts it all together.
Nested Channels?

  
!Hubzilla Support Forum
Not that I want to complicate an already intricate system...

Is there any way to nest channels? I want a hierarchical structure but maybe it's just the navigation to channels?  At the least, some way to associate channels with each other in a parent/child manner.

For example, a small podcast network might produce three podcasts.  I want a channel for the network itself and then 3 underneath that level for each podcast.

(I'll probably want CATEGORIES to work the same way but that's NOT what I'm talking about here.)
  
#just_remembering
that maximum we can make 2 forum-mentions in a post.
it is still so @Mario Vavti ?
  
I've always been one for OPTIONS in systems... and, in this case, it appears there are (at least) 3 WAYS to skin the cat.  

Thanks for the excellent explanation.  I'll have to look at each more specifically to see which seems best for my case.

I'm really liking Hubzilla but STILL have not wrapped my mind around it.  Big.

I am also pretty convinced a lot of what I intend to do will be (1) temporarily hiding even more functionality AND (2) changing the navigation/flow/appearance to make it more intuitive (at some basic member level anyway).
  
It's not something you can get your head around in a weekend, but it will all start to make sense if you persevere. There are a few places where it's a bit clumsy and hackish but for the most part it's designed for flexibility and extensibility.
Delivery Report help

  
!Hubzilla Support Forum
What is this report telling me?

I made a post on afterpod.com w/image on 20th.

On 22nd, edited the text in the message... but "update ignored".   And it tried to update itself, too? Yet can see the edited version from TLSN account, so the edit worked.

I'd like to distinguish normal vs. unusual behavior.

Image/photo
  
all 3 reticu.li are off-line ;-)
so it is normal that they are in the queue. I would say that your delivery report is perfect :)
  
I was wondering about this too. Thanks for asking, and thanks to Mike and Giac for the responses.
along Coal Creek in Colorado

  
a nice day...
(this photo reduced to about 1MB... shows inline)
Image/photo
Star Posts

  
!Hubzilla Support Forum
From the doc:
"Ability to mark special posts with a star indicator"

Yet it now appears a Star can ONLY be placed on the main post of a THREAD and not any single POST within that conversation (which is what I want to do).

Is this intended? Or is there a config option I've overlooked?
  
Yes, I like Save To Folders yet use that more as a permanent, organized collection of bookmarks.  

Star, to me, is a signal to do something later (like read, respond, tell a friend...) and I'll toggle it off when done.  A ToDo list related to posts (and/or comments).

I've also seen where star is used to signal approval (emoticons, too), much like the Thumbs Up LIKE.
  
As far as I know stars are not seen by others, so not suitable to signal approval.
  
Indeed.  And I also see a Ratings addon better for that purpose.
favicon switching

  
!Hubzilla Support Forum
I'm one of those people with TOO MANY TABS open in my browser all the time... so I rely on the icon a lot to find my way around.

Most of the time, MY favicon shows on my site... but when I click a Network Activity post entry (in the sidebar), it retrieves that thread, scrolls to the entry, and changes the icon to a default logo (hubzilla?) even though I am still on my site (have not clicked away to original post domain).

It does the same thing when click (self-hosted) documentation link.

Is there reasoning behind this behavior or is it just an oversight?
  
Okay, I'll have to look closer at that difference.

It SEEMS like viewing my full Network stream (my icon) should be the same as when I click a network Notification and am taken to the specific new post or comment within my stream (hubzilla logo).
  
Jeopardy Podcast Category

  last edited: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 04:56:02 -0600  
radial patterns

  last edited: Sat, 22 Sep 2018 15:29:59 -0600  
large photo uploaded; about 6MB (above app and PHP.ini limits)